Moderated by Michael Laskow
Panelists: Jim Thacker, Patty Boss, Greg Carrozza, Matt Vander Boegh, and John Pearson
John Pearson:
Well, so I'm in Nashville, and I was trying to write for Country artists, so I came out here to the Rally…
Michael:
And you were a touring bass player with big acts, right?
John Pearson:
People like, you know, Susie Boggess, Billy Dean, Deana Carter, stuff like that. And I thought I knew what I was doing. So, I came out here in 2015. I joined TAXI that year, and then I came to my first Road Rally. And yes, I was completely overwhelmed. But I was trying to push my songs, my Country songs… because I'd grown up, you know, in Nashville, you try to add as much, what we call furniture, as much detail, to songs. And I had to unlearn all of that stuff because, I mean, it's universal about the detail.
The example I frequently use is, ‘I walked in the smoky bar with peanut shells on the floor, and I saw her blue eyes from across the dance floor...’
Well, to further what Matt was saying, it's like, ‘my dead golden retriever and my broken-down Ford truck that was green and it was missing one tire.’ I mean, you specify all these things like the time of day, what color her hair or his hair was, those are the things that make a Country song interesting, because it's more conversational. But those don't fit in a scene, a film, TV scene, because it could be, you know a blonde-haired girl and you're singing about a brunette or whatnot. So, I had to unlearn a lot of that, and that took about a year and a half. And I kept trying to shoehorn my Country songs into these listings that were asking for universal lyrics. And I was frustrated. But I didn't give up. That's the important thing!
And side note, everybody that's here for the first time, don't let this be your only Road Rally, because all the magic happens at this Road Rally.
“I started realizing that I could do what we call ‘genre-adjacent,’ the genres that are close to Country, like Blues, Americana, Gospel, Singer/Songwriter, and Indy Folk.”
But anyway, back to the story. So, it took me about a year and a half and I started to realize what I was doing wrong, and a lot of that was going to classes, watching TAXI TV every Monday, and visiting the TAXI Forums. And actually, I put my songs on the Forums. It's a really very cool place to put your song. You can actually say, ‘I've got this rough copy.’ And they were atrocious you know, because I was singing. I mean, I'm not a vocalist, but you get input from other TAXI members like Matt Vander Boegh, and some really high-level guys that take the time to let you know what’s right or wrong about your song. But anyway, so about a year and a half later, I start realizing that, okay, I can play bass. I can play, acoustic guitar. And at that time, there weren't as many Country listings showing up, but there were a lot of Indie Folk and Singer/Songwriter listings showing up. So, I started realizing that I could do what we call ‘genre-adjacent,’ the genres that are close to Country, like Blues, Americana, Gospel, Singer/Songwriter, and Indy Folk. And I started submitting more of my songs to those listings and writing more to what the references were for those listings. Then I started getting forwards, and then I started getting happy.
I had no idea what film, TV, music was, until coming to this Road Rally in 2015. I had no idea. But fast-forward to a year and a half later, and I learned. I picked up a DAW. I didn't know what a DAW was! I picked up an Apple laptop and taught myself how to record in Logic.
I remember the day you called me during the pandemic and said, “Have you tried Logic Drummer?” You were so enthusiastic!
When you get to record the stuff. I mean, I've always recorded in studios using Nashville musicians. There are a ton of great ones, but when you can record on a DAW and you can use as many takes as you want to get the songs the way you hear them, it’s life-changing. You don't have to be a virtuoso guitar player! That's actually a detriment, sometimes. But doing this yourself, and if you don't record your own stuff, I highly suggest that you get one and learn how to use it. But I started writing that stuff, and all of a sudden, I'm getting forwards, hooked up with a publisher who heard one song, an Indie Folk song, and said, “Can you write 12 more like it?” It's like, yes, of course! As somebody mentioned up here, it doesn't happen overnight. I kept coming to the Road Rallies. I kept submitting. I kept watching TAXI TV and checking the Forwards blog to see which songs got forwarded when my submissions for the same listing got returned. It’s eye opening to hear what actually got forwarded when you thought your song was perfect for the listing. But again, what I did after getting that first collection signed, it took about three or four more years, coming to the Road Rally, keep submitting, hooking up with libraries. But a lot of the songs on that first collection got used in TV commercials for companies like FedEx and Cricket Wireless, and I have you Michael, to thank for that, because I would not know what Film/TV music was if I hadn’t joined TAXI. [applause]
You have yourself to thank for making that journey, John. Why do you think people called you back a second time? Jim?
“When you send the wrong thing a few times, it's like, ‘Well, he doesn't really get it. He's sending me Country, but it's Swamp Rock that I needed,’ right?”
Jim Thacker: Well, one thing I think, and super important was, I didn't call them. I didn't reach out to them every week or every day, or might have taken months for them to get back to me with another brief or something. So that was huge. Patience is such a huge part of this game. But I think part of the reason they call back is because at that point, by that time, I had been at TAXI for eight years, and like a lot of these people said, I had developed the music to a point where it was ready. It took me that long, and I was working with co-writers who were amazing and producing people who sounded great, you know. But secondly, it was not shoehorning, not sending the wrong thing. When you send the wrong thing a few times, it's like, ‘Well, he doesn't really get it. He's sending me Country, but it's Swamp Rock that I needed,’ right? Even that close adjacent thing. So, I was very mindful of that, and then it’s really the etiquette and professionalism. And it took me a long time, and it was really kind of starting my company, when I realized the business side of things that is so huge. And that goes with etiquette. Split sheets, work-for-hires, one-stop clearances, that's what my world is almost every day now. And it was probably only the last three, four or five years that I really was conscious of that. I'm even going back to co-writers from six years ago and saying we got to do a split sheet, you know. I wasn't doing them back then, but you have to do that stuff because messy stuff happens. I've had some really bad experiences a couple times this year where I made the mistake of not having split sheets with somebody. It’s not litigation I worry about, it's relationships I worry about losing if I do something like that! But if you make that mistake one time when submitting to listings, it might not be the end of the world, but once you get to that next tier, it might not be career-killing, but it can be relationship-killing. So, I have that in the front of my mind at all times, and I want that person to call me back. So that's etiquette and professionalism. And I’d like to say one more thing about the inner circle. I look at the inner circle like, okay, here to me, when I first came to TAXI, the inner circle was like, you and Rob Chiarelli and those people who are just like the iconic TAXI folks, right? I see another circle outside of that, that's like people who were here for a while, like Matt Hirt, and they're kind of in that circle. It's like six degrees of separation, right? And they connect. And then I'm out here in a circle with John, who I met in the Rally registration line. And so, we formed our own circle out here, and it intersected suddenly with like Matt Hirt and people like that. And then it's almost like it gets digested by that circle, until you get into the inner circle, right? It's kind of like those inner circles connect. And so that happened, that happens to all of us, right? That's the big thing. So, once you start your inner circle, especially new people, start your own inner circle, and that will connect with people to where it's like, well, you know, we're writing with somebody, and they're like, I'm in this library. Write with me, and we'll get into a library together that happens, that happened to me so much like John and I did a ton of that together. So, once you get that going, it brings you closer to that inner circle, and eventually you're kind of there, so that's where the relationship is key, you know. One last thing that I really wanted to say, actually, was be supportive of each other. You know, we're not competing. I look at it, you know, being an army brat and all that. I look at this. This is warfare. Like we're soldiers on the same battlefield for real, and like we're in the foxhole and we got to get to that next foxhole. We’ve got to gain ground. And if you get up and you get a few yards, reach out and then you pull up your fellow soldier and just go. And there's times when you're going to have to retreat to the next foxhole because you screwed up, right? But it's always gaining that ground together and supporting each other. And you know, it took me a while, because I was a little bit selfish about my music when I first came here, and I was like, I have to get a cut. I have to do this. And then it became, we have to do this. And then it became being really excited and happy for that other person when they got one that you weren't involved in and supporting each other. It took me a while to really be genuine about that too, right? I mean, people know when you're shinin’-on or B.S.ing, and you know, you have to find that place in your heart where it's genuine and you really feel good for those people. And I'm really lucky now, because I get to do that for other folks and get them a success, and I feel better about that than I do for my own successes now, I mean, and that's what fuels me to do, it is because I'm just so excited and happy for them, you know, and it's a bigger charge now than getting all my own placements that I've had. It's crazy, you know. So that's what I think etiquette, relationships and professionalism is, and why it all comes into play.
Don’t miss Part 4 (the last part) of this interview in next month’s TAXI Transmitter.