Moderated by Michael Laskow
Panelists: Jim Thacker, Patty Boss, Greg Carrozza, Matt Vander Boegh, and John Pearson
Michael: I’ll admit that it really pisses me off when people say, “Oh, there's a clique at TAXI. The guys that you have on TAXI TV, the ones that are successful, there's a clique, like they must know something, or they're your friends,” or to even infer that really, really upsets me, because that's absolutely not the truth. But there is an inner circle of sorts, but it's not exclusionary. It's just everybody up here has earned their place in the inner circle because of the work they do and the way that they do their work. So, I just wanted to have a conversation about it. This might be a little less structured than most of the panels we do. From left to right, we have Jim Thacker, Patty Boss, Greg Carrozza, Matt Vander Boegh, last but not least, John Pearson. [Applause]
I've known them all for a pretty long time. They are my friends, but they're my friends because I respect them so much. It's easy to be friends with people that you admire, and I admire all of you, and I admire your work ethic, your attitude about the industry, and the fact that each of you has become successful. You guys are what everybody else in this room wants to be. So, I want to peel back the onion layers and find out what it is that got you into the so-called inner circle.
Jim, I think it was actually Mason Cooper who made me aware of you. He said, “You know, there's this member…” He asked to have you on stage with him, I think, two years ago at the Rally. And I asked, why? And he said, “Because he gets it.” And I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Well, you know, he maybe asked a couple the wrong questions or had the wrong approach in the beginning, but he actually listened to me and adjusted what he was doing to the point where I really like working with this guy.” And bam, you were in his inner circle. So, tell us about not necessarily that specific journey, because I don't want everybody running up to Mason in the bar tonight saying the same things that you said, believe me, people would do some people would do that.
Greg: Hold on and let me take some notes here. Real quick. What’s Mason's number? [Audience laughter]
So, tell us a little bit about your TAXI back story, Jim. And how you have ascended, and what you did in particular, I guess, with Mason.
Jim: I appreciate all those comments, and I'm very flattered and honored to be here. And first of all, I want to say that the reason I feel like I'm friends with Michael for the same reasons. I really wanted to tell you that I don't know that I know too many people in my life that work as hard with as much intention and care for something as you do, and a good example is the TAXI Garage. What a great idea. I mean, you've been at it a long time doing this, and you're always innovating, but you're innovating to help everybody here, help all of us. That's going to help me big time. And the only thing is, I wish you did it 10 years ago, because I'm not that much of a newcomer. I've been coming to TAXI for 10 years now, which is crazy. And I've been a member for 11 years, but I've gone through all of the things that you guys go through, the Mentor Lunches, the One-to One Mentor sessions, the pitching panels with my heart in my throat, thinking, “Oh, I hope they like my song,” and all of that for many years. And so, I really understand that, especially the new people, which I know we have a lot of in the ballroom, today.
So, I come from that place, and I really get like, how much of a gauntlet that can be, how tough it can be. So, I think the thing with Mason, the only thing I can say is I was gonna actually talk about this. I made notes for once in my life. And one of the things I was gonna say is, I'm not a superstitious, like ethereal kind of guy. I'm a pretty grounded military brat… just really kind of straight-ahead type of thing when it comes to, you know, spirituality. I mean, I'm a spiritual person, but not over the top, and not superstitious and all that. But I've come—in the last 10 years—to really believe in the law of intention and manifestation. And just on a level of I think when you believe in something, it sets your mind to working your ass off at that, right? But it also does something else that I can't explain, because things have happened to me in the last 10 years that I cannot explain, and it's way beyond me. And Mason is one of those things. And I'll tell the story like this, because it's really cool.
So probably eight years ago at my fourth TAXI Road Rally, I was here, and Mason did a panel, and I was like, “Man, this guy's so cool. I really like this guy, you know, I like what he has to say. This guy just has a spirit. He's so cool and he's a badass. This guy's just great. I want to talk to him,” so,and I have proof of this. I wrote him down on my phone. I have his name to this day on a little note, you know, “Meet Mason.”
So, I came up and I talked to him, and I explained to him who I was, and he said, “Oh, you know, nice to meet you.” And 20 other people came by. And I think it was the next year, I met him again, and I asked, “Could I send you some music?” And he said, “Yeah.” And I sent him, like, three things, and I never heard back. And so, you know, four years, five years went by, you know, we had COVID, and then I came back to LA for the following TAXI Rally, and I had met my girlfriend. This is just a crazy story, so I'd met my girlfriend, and I'll try to make it short, but I met my girlfriend, and she was managing a band that I played with. I was playing bass for a guy, and I met my girlfriend that way, and that guy got a placement on a film with a director here in LA from Vermont that we knew, and just this crazy circle six degrees of separation thing. And so we came out to LA, my girlfriend and I and to the Rally, and we're like, let's go to dinner with Martine, who's this director. So, we're sitting there with Martine. You know, this is four years later from what I was talking about. We're sitting at his dinner table, and I told him what I did. You know, I'm here for the TAXI Rally, and I do music for TV film. He's like, I got a great friend. I need you to meet.
His name's Mason. And I'm like, “What's his last name?” “Mason Cooper.” And it had actually been probably four or five years, since we spoke, and I kind of forgot. I pulled out my phone, and I'm looking, and I'm like, “This guy?” And so, he set up a zoom, meeting with me and Mason. I started talking, and he's like, “Oh yeah, cool. You know, send me some music.” And it probably took another year after that of talking to him, to sending him some stuff. And then a year after that, he hit me up, just out of the blue, and he said, “You know, I know you're in Nashville. I'm going to ask you this now, and you're never going to hear me ask it again. Do you have any Country music? So I said, “Do I have Country music?” He responded, “They want kind of Johnny Cash kind of stuff.” So, I'm like, “I got a guy.” I have this friend in Nashville who can sing just like Johnny Cash. I mean, he nails it. And the best thing is he's like, he's this tall Korean kid with super-long hair, and this voice comes out of him like Johnny Cash.
So, I sent Mason, like, three or four, maybe five songs. It was an indie film he was doing, you know, and all five songs got into that film. And so now, you know, I've proven to Mason what we can do, but I'm also maybe branded as a Country guy, right? So that's what I'm concerned about now. So, I made sure that Mason knew I could do other things too. You know, I can do Country if you need it, but I can do other things, as well.
And then as time went on, so I’ve probably known Mason now for six or seven years, well, not known him, but it was six or seven years since I wanted to meet him. I’ve probably really known him for three, and I just continue to work with him. And it took two or three years for him to start recommending me to other people. I had to gain his trust. But now, he's actually introduced me to other people. So, it just takes time. That's the best thing I can say about that whole story. And you’ve got to get to know somebody. And I want to say something. One more thing up front, because I don't want to take up the whole panel.
“The best way to get into somebody's inner circle is what somebody did to me this weekend.”
So, um, so anyhow, long story short, you know, you talk about how to get into somebody's inner circle, and I wanted to make sure to remember to say this. The best way to get into somebody's inner circle is what somebody did to me this weekend. So last year, I don't know if you remember, I completely lost my voice. It sounded like I had a whistle in my throat. I would talk. It was like, sound like it was going through puberty at 50, you know. And so this year, on Friday night, I think it was, it started to go. And I'm like, Oh God, here we go again. And I was talking to somebody in the bar or something, I think. And I'm like, honey helps, you know, I'm gonna get some honey. So anyway, fast forward to Saturday, and I saw this person in the hallway, and this lady handed me a little thing of honey. How do you get into my inner circle? Do that, right? So, Doug and Cheryl did that. Please give it up for Doug and Cheryl. Thank you, guys. And it, honestly, I think, saved my voice, because, you know, I couldn't talk on Friday, and I've been mainlining honey since then, but so that's how you get into somebody's inner circle, right? Like, that's so sweet and so giving, and, of course, I'm gonna listen to your music, you know, it's like, that's so cool. So, to me, that's probably number one, is get to know somebody. It's family, right? I can go on and on about stories, but it's all family. It's really a family, certainly
at this place. [applause]
Yes, it's amazing. I'm astounded. I own the company. I've done 28 Road Rallies. I walk out of this ballroom and look at the people in the hallway and go, “How did this happen?” I mean, I'm really glad that it happened. People say, “Oh, Michael, you've created something so wonderful.” And I always say I just poured the foundation, put up the barn walls, but it's the people that walked into the barn that made it happen. It's not me, it’s you guys. I've been to virtually every other conference of this sort out there. None of them have this vibe, this level of generosity amongst members, and the sharing. It's so non-competitive and so supportive. So, thank you for noticing that, Jim. Thank you for the kind words.
Patty, you've been around the Rally for many, many years. You were amongst the first people to be in the inner circle. How did that happen for you? Because I should say, I've asked you to be on this panel, because you're a go to person. Anybody who's worked with you once knows that they can call you for anything, and if you don't feel that it's the right thing for you, I'm sure you would say “It’s not the right thing for me. Let me turn you on to somebody who can,” but more often than not, you'll just nail it. And so how did you get there? It's just a simple question, how do you become that person that people call again?
Patty: Good question. First of all, thank you friends for coming. Thanks to all of you people for showing up for this panel, and thanks Michael for all the 24-hour, round-the-clock work you do.
Well, I joined, you know, it's funny, like many of us, I saw these TAXI ads when I was at Berklee College of Music. I saw them in the music magazines, and I just never responded. And then finally, I knew somebody who was in the ad in the magazine. I'm like, I know him. So, I thought, oh, I should join. And of course, I should have joined long before that, but when I joined, The Rally was coming up, and I saw the photographs of the audience, you know, and I thought, “Oh, that looks scary, you know, all those people.” And so, on the other side of my brain said, you're going, I don't care if you're uncomfortable, you're going to go to the Rally. So I booked and came on four hours of sleep because I was up making cards, like we all do that right before we come. And I was kind of nervous before I showed up. And then I remember walking into the lobby, and it took about 10 seconds, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, these are my people.”
When I started, just instantly having a great time. I went to a lot of classes, trying to get a grip on how everything works and what I can do. And I'll never forget, Matt Hirt and John Mazzei, they were doing this long before I was but they were they, I think they kind of set the precedent or the tone for sharing information. And, you know, all rising waters raise all boats, kind of an idea. But Matt, yeah, Matt Hirt, shared his BMI statement, and he passed it around the class, one of the smaller classes. And I was like, wow, and I was trying to absorb as much of the data as I could about the trends. And, you know, how many tracks, how much money, how many years. And I kind of got a sense that, basically, it was doubling in every statement for him, or every year, I can't remember, it was an incredible, sort of a parabolic increase on, you know, doubling each time. So better than the stock market, it's just cumulative.
And then it's kind of funny, because now, like, you can kind of underestimate the people you're meeting and the friends that you're making, but really what was happening is I was just having fun because I'm social, and I found people who had some of the same interests as I do. You know how there's the breakfast crew, like, I'll never be on the breakfast crew, because I'm never going to wake up that early to go to Denny's. And so, I found that year-after-year at those early Rallies, I kept kind of hanging out with kind of the same people, and they had great senses of humor. And one thing we had common was we would get antsy, like, hang out, you know, in a space for a while, and then we'd all say at the same time, like, uh, let's go down to the lobby, or, oh, let's, let's go do this or that, you know, we just always kind of wanted to be in some kind of motion, the helipad, right? Yeah, the helipad, yeah. There was a helipad party on the hotel’s roof one year.
“I got some advice from somebody to do what we hear a lot, which is write to the listings.”
But, you know, I'm saying all this because, as all of you, I came here thinking, “Oh, you know, where's the publisher I can talk to? Where's the library owner that will sign me,” because we come here with all the music we already made—and this is very common—and I did it, too! It's like, oh, “I made this music, already. The mentor is going to hear it and be like, ‘You're amazing. I want to sign all your songs,’” and it's going to be great. And then, I got some advice from somebody to do what we hear a lot, which is write to the listings, and then also go to the Rally. And so, my point is that mindset of, “Oh, I have to get here. I have to get there. I have to get this signed.” But really, for all of you sitting, you know, next to somebody, even at the luncheon or in the lobby, those are the people that, in the end, are going to be your co-writers, or maybe they become a publisher, and that's sort of what happened with me. The people I loved hanging out with—little did I know—already had a lot going on. But then, they eventually started a library and then introduced me to some other libraries, and most of it happened through the Rally.
You and I did a panel together some years ago, in 2018, I think. As you know, I've got four daughters. I've got a very independent wife, and I was amazed when I first started advertising in print magazines, that their readers’ demographics were 94% male readers, 6% female, and I couldn't understand that. Back in my early days of engineering, I knew a female engineer named Anne Holloway. She never had a problem being in the boys’ club, if you will. And you guys were talking on the panel saying, you know, it's been a guy's industry. And because I get very frustrated saying, well, there are equal numbers of men and women doing graphics on computers. So why is it that there are less women doing music? And it might have been, you could have been somebody else on that panel that said, “It's always been kind of a boys club, and, you know, we've been trained to think that it's their world, not ours.” Yet I see you at the Rally and with your circle of friends, and gender seems to have nothing to do with it. So, I just want to encourage more women to not think that, at least in this environment, under this roof, with this group of people, it's my personal opinion and observation. It doesn't matter what gender, what color, anything there. There are no barriers. It's all about you just being open to meeting people and working with them and stuff. Is that a fair statement?
Oh, yeah, totally, totally, yeah. I think I got used to working in the context of things, you know, activities or jobs or schools where there was a higher percentage of males. I'll give you an example. I worked at UPS in college loading trucks, and actually I was playing rugby too, on the women's team down here in LA. I was probably twenty-something, and then somebody said, “Oh, you're crazy enough to play rugby. You're probably crazy enough to work at UPS, you know.” But, like, basically it was just a college job, part-time. It was a great job. So there, there I was, and there it was, all boys, and I just remember saying to myself, “Just don't quit.” It was really hard in the beginning. It was basically like boot camp, but I made it through that, and then, so I just kind of got used to it. But all the people I worked with were great, and then I became a supervisor. So, in my mind, you're right, it's just they're really just people. And you know, it's kind of funny, because you could be some giant dude and inside be a really sensitive person, and the giant dudes, like, “Yeah, everybody thinks I'm this big, scary guy.” So, you know, the person inside of a body is, we're all just, we're all different people, but there is [always common ground.] When I went to Berklee College of Music it was about 85% male, and 15% female.
I was in a technology class. And, you know, we had manuals for a synth class, and I didn't know how to really do the synth stuff, yet. And neither did the other guys, right? But what I learned is the guys were not reading the manual. They went like this, we had workstations, and I had the epiphany that day when one of the guys sneaks over to the other guy and he goes, “Dude, how do you do this?” And I was like, “Oh, they just ask each other, and they show each other.” And I'm like, they're stupid, you know? Like, I mean, I'm joking, because there's intelligent and stupid everybody. But no, you're right.
How many of us dudes ever ask our wife for directions? [Laughter] There you go. And my wife says, I don't even follow Waze correctly.
I ran my little recording studio for quite a while as a solo artist studio, and eventually it became a Hip Hop studio. And so, these guys would call, and yes, “I'm the studio manager.” And then when they would come for the session, I was like, “Yes, I'm your engineer for today,” and I was, like, a one-person show. Nobody ever said anything. Like, you know, these are, like, wannabe gangsters in the hood with their lyrics and everything, and they're very nice. They said, “Miss Patty this, Miss Patty that.” And, you know, they’d jump in the booth, do their thing, and then I’d give them their CDs or their flash drives, and nobody ever said, “Oh, you know you're female or you're going to be a good engineer or whatever. My gender just didn't matter.
Don’t miss Part 2 of this panel in next month’s TAXI Transmitter!