Michelle Bell is a hit songwriter, producer, music licensing expert, and Vice President of Creative at Roc Nation. She gives tons of great advice in this Keynote Interview!
I struggle each time I need to pick a person to be our keynote because half the people here are songwriters and artists, and the other half are into film and TV. I always feel like I’m shortchanging one group or the other, and this year was no different. As I was looking at my list of possibilities—not really loving any of them—I saw a notification on LinkedIn that gave me the perfect person for this year’s keynote—Michelle Bell. She’s Vice-President of Creative at Jay-Z’s company, Roc Nation. Why is Michelle Bell so perfect? Because she was a lot like you guys—a young person who lived in Canton, Ohio, and had the dream to be in the music business. She’s also been successful on the record side of the industry, as well as the film and TV music licensing side. As a pop songwriter and producer, her melodies, lyrics and productions have contributed to the sale of over 40 million albums with artists like Jennifer Lopez, Britney Spears, Shawn Combs, Timbaland, Mary J. Blige, Nas, and many others. As a music publisher and A&R person, she signed four Grammy-nominated multi-platinum singer/songwriters or songwriter/producers, and in the music licensing field, Michelle has extensive experience licensing songs to the biggest films, TV advertising, gaming, and digital platforms around the world.
Her story will inspire you. Her advice just may help you become successful. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in giving a warm welcome to Roc Nation’s Vice-President of Creative and this year’s keynote interviewee, Ms. Michelle Bell! [Applause]
Hi Michael. Thanks for having me, it’s great to be here.
Do you remember the first moment when you thought you wanted to be in the music business?
Well, thank you for the kind words. You know, I think it’s something probably from the very beginning. I came from a very musical family. I’ll tell you, actually, I think from the time I was born, the first song I heard was “Michelle, my Bell,” and I’m pretty sure as soon as I came out the doctors sang it, then the nurses sang it, then all the teachers sang it and the neighbors sang it. So I thought that everybody came with a song; I didn’t know that that was just a special thing. But music was always a part of my family, and always a part of my life, so it just felt very natural. My brother played piano, my mother sang, and all of my aunts and uncles. So, yeah.
Did you start playing an instrument at an early age, start singing?
I did. Singing I think was the most natural. I always tried to play piano. I think I learned later in my songwriting years that the melodies came faster than I could figure out on the piano. I felt like it was so much easier for me to just sing everything and to get everything out that way, as opposed to learning an instrument. I mean, I tried really hard with piano, I tried the drums, I tried the guitar, I tried everything, but singing was probably the most natural way for me to express myself.
Yours is sort of a classic story that includes taking the train from Ohio to New York, and you arrived in New York City and started writing. You were writing already in Ohio for a small-town paper, right? And how did that launch you into your New York part of your career?
I ended up going to… There was an advanced placement program at our school, so I was able to go to college early and got an internship at a newspaper. I was always kind of a networker. I don’t know if I was really good at anything at the beginning, but networking I was good at. If I was an intern, I don’t know if I was the world’s best intern—definitely not getting all the best work done as good I think that people liked—and that was important to me. But, there was no one in our town who was really going to a lot of the music shows, so once I realized that, I took the letterhead and started faxing it to record labels. That shows you how long ago it was—we were still faxing. Yeah, I would write to the record labels, because I just wanted to meet people; I just wanted to learn about the music business. I didn’t know how to get into it, but I made some really great friendships and connections over the phone just trying to be myself.
I met some really good people, so by the time I took the train to New York and told my parents that I was gonna leave college because I’d met a bunch of people in New York, and they were like, what?! People get off the bus and the train every day and land in New York and never make it, but thankfully I did make a lot of really solid connections, and asked a ton of questions. For me it was always the best way to get something out of… People love to talk about themselves, right? Look at me, I’m going on right now. [Laughs]
You’re the keynote, you’re supposed to. [Laughs]
If I could get somebody on the phone, I would ask them a question about their work but also about their life, and then I tried to remember those things. So, every time I would write to someone and I got a message or a call back, eventually people at the newspaper started taking notice, and they were like, why is RCA Records calling for our intern to cover this big show at the stadium? And from there it just ended up working out. I mean, that’s kind of the long story made short, but networking and I think just engaging with people, that’s what really worked to get me to New York.
You’re the single best networker I’ve ever seen in my almost-50-year career. You’re such a natural at it; her nickname is “Busy Bell.” The thing you mentioned was something I learned from you 10 years ago, which is to ask people about themselves. And I always tell our members on TAXI TV who ask, “How do I meet somebody at the Road Rally; how do I get my music to somebody from the industry?” And I say, “Don’t approach them at the stage and go, ‘Here’s my CD.’” Wait until they’re at the bar, walk up and say, “You were great on that panel. How did you get your start in the industry?” And 20 minutes later they’ll ask you, “And what do you do?” Because they will talk about themselves and it gets them comfortable. So great advice. I passed it along to many.
How did you learn the craft of songwriting well enough to earn a seat at the table with people like Sean Combs, J.Lo, and Britney?
You know, you learn by doing. My first few songs weren’t that great at all. But I didn’t know! I just thought that everything I was writing was good. And I think being around other creatives, that’s how I learned, also. I had someone who sat me down… Well, the first time I ever went into a studio I didn’t know what I was doing, so I went in there with an engineer who now is a really well-known huge guy, but I think at that point I was torturing him. He was a new engineer, and I was a new songwriter, and I went in and I must have sung the song like at least 150 times, just over and over from the top to all the way down. And we were still cutting to tape then, so probably the last song that I recorded would’ve taken me, I don’t know, an hour to do the vocals, maybe 45 minutes. But during that time I didn’t really know what I was doing, and there was another writer in the studio who said, “You’re missing all of the great melodies; you’re missing all of the great lyrics, because you’re just in here going from top to bottom, you’re not focusing on the parts of this song that are really catchy. So I had a few people that just really talked me through it, and a good friend who sat down with me and said, “This is how we do it. Let’s start with the verse; let’s find a melody that we really like—that’s the one.” And we went over it over and over again, and there was sort of this thing that clicked like that’s what people sing along to on the radio—the catchy part. But if I’m just sort of changing the melody and making it very loose and all over the place, then how can someone else sing along with it if I’m doing a ton of ad libs and adding a bunch of harmonies?
So that’s how I really learned to become a better songwriter; by learning the formula and the structure of finding the catchy part, and teaching it to yourself. You’re learning the song, so you go through the verse, then you go through the chorus, then you go through the B-section, but when you sing it down, you should remember every melody, pretty much. Also, I think it’s just finding those parts where you’re saying [to yourself], “No, I don’t think this is that great,” and being able to critique yourself. That was important to me, and once I did that, that’s how I think I just got better and better.
“It wasn’t always about listening to my songs, it was just getting to know people, having a rapport with them.”
So how did you get your first song heard by somebody in the industry that could say, “Ya know, that lady has got some talent.” Who was that? What was that moment like, and how did it all come about?
Sure, I got my first song heard by being pushy. You know, a little bit… not aggressive, but definitely a squeaky wheel gets the oil. I always tell people that if you write to somebody and they don’t get back to you… I am somewhat… I have to be honest, I wake up with so many messages, but it’s important to me to get back to people, even if it takes two to three weeks. Even if I just write to someone and say, “Hey, I didn’t forget you,” or “Gonna circle back through this. If you don’t hear from me, reach back out again.” Because a lot of A&R people just don’t have time to do that.
So, I was very fortunate to get another internship in New York City in the BMG building working with Sean Combs, and it was when he had started this company called, Sean John, and I had free items to give away. Sean John was kind of a hot commodity, and at that time he was also [getting swag from companies like] Adidas and Nike. So every person in the BMG building that would take a meeting with me, I would give away free clothes, free Nikes, and books. Anything that I got, I gave it back away just to get in the room with people and talk. It wasn’t always about listening to my songs, it was just getting to know people, having a rapport with them. Even back then I wasn’t emailing a lot, so I would write handwritten notes to people. I’d send them cards just to say, “Hey, thinkin’ about you. Hope you’re doing well.”
You gave me a house plant on your last day of doing A&R at TAXI. Nobody in all the years I’ve run TAXI, nobody has ever given me a plant and said “thank you” on their way out. So there you go.
Well, they should’ve. You [and TAXI] have definitely been great for a lot of people in this industry. Super-appreciative of that.
“There were a lot of times when I wanted to give up, so having that moment where it’s like this is finally happening, it was wonderful, amazing. I called my parents.”
So how did you get Sean to hear your song? I mean, did you walk in and go, “By the way, I’ve got a song you need.”
Here’s the thing: I could get people to talk to me, but the songs weren’t that great. They weren’t. They were nothing to write home about, so to speak. And there was a guy by the name of Derek Thompson, and he worked at BMG, and he sat me down and said, “You know what? You’re great; you’re a very nice person. I like you a lot, but these songs are just not where they should be. I’d love to introduce you to a few people.” He introduced me to a guy by the name of Teron Beal, who was writing with Michael Jackson at the time, and he and I became really good friends. And he was another person who taught me a lot about song structure and just how to go in the studio and lay down the vocals, the harmonies.
And then one day it just clicked. I felt like I knew it almost when I wrote the song, it felt like, “this is the one.” It took about 15 minutes, and I couldn’t even get everything out, it was just happening so fast. I was already in the BMG building, all I needed was one good song. People were kind of, you know… I had kind of run its course with hearing my songs, but I said, “I’ve just got this new one, and I’ve got a special feeling about it.” I played it for Derek, and he was like, “This is something really special.” I played it for another woman, Jessica Rivera, who worked at Bad Boy at the time, which was Sean Combs’ company. And she said, “I’m gonna take this to him.” And at that time was an unpaid intern, really, working at night at the studio, and then working during the day just trying to stay in the mix. And he loved it, and he played it for Jennifer Lopez, and that was my very first song [that got cut]. And then I learned about the music business after that.
Yeah, it was a wonderful opportunity, but it came from a lot of playing—I would say—bad songs first before I got to that moment.
Ten thousand hours, you know? Nothing you’re telling me is surprising. You invested in yourself; you spent the 10,000 hours; you paid your dues and you got the prize. Yay you!
Your song was getting cut, and what did it feel like the first time you heard it?
Overwhelming. I was so excited. You set out to do something and you manifest it, and then it happens. I think there were moments where it was like everyone in the city is trying to write a song or be an actress or do something creative; why me? There were a lot of times when I wanted to give up, so having that moment where it’s like this is finally happening, it was wonderful, amazing. I called my parents, I was excited, “I told you I was gonna do it.” But it was really awesome seeing it the first time… I got the CD, and I was like, I want to go and buy it. I got an advance copy, but I wanted to go into where they sell CDs at the record store. I went into a Tower Records, and I think I must have bought like 10 of them or something. It was just amazing, opening it up and seeing my name. And, yeah, it was pretty awesome.
Was that level of competency or talent that you achieved in songwriting at that moment, was it like everything after that song was equally as good, or did you still write some stinkers and have to throw them away?
Oh yeah. You know, it’s all subjective, right? We never know what people are gonna love or what they are going to gravitate towards. I think what I learned is trying to write songs for people was not as successful as much as writing songs for me. The songs that I got placed were the ones that were authentic, that were true, that were actually my own story. The ones that I was embarrassed to play for people, because I felt like this was way too personal. Those are the ones that people gravitated towards. Especially during that time being on the J.Lo album, I felt like I’ve got to get with… You know, after this it has to be all A-list superstars.
And you know, this business is very up and down. It’s a rollercoaster, so I think, yeah, to answer your question, there were still some bad ones, but then there’s this rhythm, this groove that you get into where it’s like, “No, I don’t think this one’s it. Let me scratch it and go on to the next one.” I always tell people sometimes we can stifle the creativity by working on the same thing over and over and over. If you love something, sometimes you’ve just got to wait for it to happen. You have to say, “Ok, I don’t know if this is the one. I love this, but I’m gonna come back to it,” because I have endless ideas, right? So, I would just start something else or move on to something else. But, yeah, there were some that weren’t that great.
Did people start to seek you out because you were starting to have success, so it was no longer you reaching out, not begging, but reaching out trying to make stuff happen? Did it start coming to you instead?
Sure. I think it’s a competitive business, but I definitely had a lot of interest. I signed with Universal. I had a lot of really great moments. I had a publisher who really believed in me. His name was Andrew Furman, and he kind of took me under his wing. Actually, I was signed by a woman named Angelique Miles, and she left the company as soon as I got there, and it was really tough for me, because I felt like I didn’t have a champion. And then 9/11 happened and there was a songwriter who had been the darling and she was doing really well… There were a few that had come in before me and had a bunch of big cuts, but nobody wanted to fly. And Andrew came to me—we had just met—and he said, “Do you want to go to Sweden?” And I was like, “Yeah. I’ll get on a plane to go to Sweden.” This was maybe literally weeks after 9/11. There was nobody on the plane. My family thought I was crazy, but I thought this has to be the safest time to fly. And that’s what led to all the Britney cuts.
Don’t miss Part 2 of this interview next month!